01-Jan-01, 11:31 AM (GMT)


Asalaam Alaikum.

Brother Waqar if you are a sincere person who believes that its the truth that deserves to be followed then lets discuss further and submit to the will of Allah who said in surah Asr:

"By time, man is in a great loss, except those who have iman, act righteous deeds, EXALT ONE ANOTHER TO THE TRUTH and exalt one another to Sabir"

I have taken the following from your reply to me on the subject: "WHO DESERVES THE RIGHT TO CALIPHATE IN ISLAM"

YOU SAID:"...Khilafat is a divine institution, established by Allah Himself. The Mu'min occupying the position of Khalifa, therefore, is always chosen by God. Through inspiration, He informs the faithful of His choice. The appointee does not suddenly descend from heaven, nor is he superior to any one else on account of his blood relations to the Prophet. He is born, lives and breathes among the faithful. Khilafat is not a seat that can be occupied by any Tom, ##### or Harry. It is always the one considered the most righteous among the Mu'mineen. To believe otherwise is tantamount to thinking that Allah has taken His Hand away from Khilafat and left it to the disposal of humans, and abandoned the faithful..."

BROTHER WAQAR: if you believe that the "Khilafat is a divine institution, established by Allah Himself."

Then i cant disagree with you any further, you have enjoined what the Holy Quran has expressed:

"Allah creates and CHOOSES whatever He wishes, and men have no right to choose in opposition to His choice." (28:67)?

Allah is aware of the spiritual capacities, religious rank, and piety of the Imam, and in accordance with this awareness He knows, too, to whom the custodianship of religious knowledge should be entrusted: who it is that can carry this burden and not neglect fora minute the duties of summoning men to God and implementing divine justice.

If we say that people have no right to interfere in the matter of choosing the Imam, it is because they cannot be adequately informed of the inner purity and piety of individuals, of the degree to which they adhere to the values of Islam and the Qur'an; above all, they cannot perceive the presence or absence of the divine principle of inerrancy.

It was therefore the prerogative of the Prophet to designate his successors by the divine will of Allah.

YOU SAID:"..The Mu'min occupying the position of Khalifa, therefore, is always chosen by God.."

Brother if the above is correct and you are not a man of going against your word then tell me why were not Hadrat Abu Bakr, hadhart Omar, Hadhrat Uthmaan r.a chosen by Allah?

The following are our evidences to show that the Caliphs before Imam Ali were not chosen By the Holy Prophet in submission to the will of Allah.

SAHIH MUSLIM: Book 020, Number 4486:

It has been reported on the authority of Ibn 'Umar who said: I entered the apartment of (my sister) Hafsa. She said: Do you know that your father is not going to nominate his successor?...If I do not nominate a successor (I have a precedent before me), for the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)DID NOT NOMINATE HIS SUCCESSOR. And if I nominate one (I have a precedent), for Abu Bakr did nominate..."

Brother the above narration informs us that Hadhrat Omar ibn khattab admits that the Holy Prophet "DID NOT NOMINATE" his successor but on the other hand ABU BAKR DID.

SO was Abu bakr chosen by Allah and His Messenger?

Had the Holy Prophet chosen Abu bakr for the leadership then why was there a need for the Companions to settle their dispute at Saqifa bani where Abu bakr was chosen by them?

Was not ther choice of the Holy Prophet enough for the muslims to submit to : "Take and accept that
which the Messenger ordains, and abandon that which he forbids." (59) ?

Had the Holy Prophet by the will of Allah chosen Abu bakr for the leadership, then why would Hadhrat Omar express the following:

"It was an accident that Abu Bakr became leader. No consultation or exchange of views took place. If anyone in future invites you to do the same again, kill him." ???

Ibn Hisham, al-Sirah, Vol. IV, p.308.
See also Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 8.817

YOU SAID:"..Khilafat is not a seat that can be occupied by any Tom, ##### or Harry. It is always the one considered the most righteous among the Mu'mineen..."

True I agree with you, it is illogical to think that Allah bestows upon a person an exalted position of superiority, without him having to earn it:

"And for all (are ranks) (assigned) according to what they did; that Allah may (fully) recompense their deeds, and they shall not be done any injustice" -46:19

Allah says: "The best among you in the sight of Allah, is he with the most upright character; Verily Allah is All-knowing, All-Aware" - 49:13

A person's character is due to the extent of his piety, the more a pious a person would be the more exalted character he will achieve.

A person's piety can also be due to the extent of his knowledge, about right and wrong, and other matters relating to it. The more knowledge a person has, the more it will help him, to correct his conduct in the matters against deviation and ungodly attitude and THUS he will be amongst God-fearing.

" Verily, the God-fearing from amongst his servants are those endued with knowledge; Verily Allah is All-Mighty, Oft-Forgiving" - 35:28

A person's knowledge and a firm belief can also raise the standard of a person to a exalted position, as Allah says:

" …Allah will EXALTED those who believe amongst you and those who have been granted knowledge in RANKS; AndAllah is All-Aware of whatever you do" - 58:11

All this sums up to, that a person's position is elevated to a superior rank, due to his Merits, Virtues, Knowledge and Piety.

What does the Quran say about the qualifications of a leader?

Below is a following ayah from the Holy Quran which sheds some light on this matter.

The Holy Quran mentions: "And their Prophet said unto them: "Verily, Allah has raised up for you Talut (to be) the King (Ruler) they said: "How can the kingdom be his, over us, whereas we are rightful for it than he while he is not gifted with abundance of wealth;?" he said: "Verily, Allah has CHOSEN him over you and has increased him abundantly in Knowledge and Physique; and verily, Allah grants His Kingdom unto whomever he pleaseth; Allah is Omniscient and All-Knowing." - ( 2:247)

According to the verse above, the reply given by the Prophet against the people's argument needs a serious attention by those who are sincere to know the qualities essentially needed in a Amir/Ruler, be he a mere temporal one:-

(1)'Innallah astafaha alaikum' i.e. "Verily Allah has chosen him in preference to you" This part of the verse clearly and very eloquently gives out the fact or the divine law that a Amir/Ruler of the people, is not chosen by the people themselves but by Allah Himself.

(2)' Wazadahu Bastutanfil ilmi wal jism' i.e. "He (Allah) has increased him abundantly in Knowledge and Physique. These words plainly expose that the one chosen by Allah to rule His people, is given Knowledge and Physical strength by Allah Himself. That the true Amir/Ruler of Allah's loved people must possess divinely inspired Knowledge and godly strength of the body.

(3)'Wallahu Youti Mulkuhumaiyasha' i.e "Verily Allah (alone) grants His Kingdom to whoever He likes" - which means that the Kingdom is of Allah alone, and it is granted only by Him and it is granted to whoever He likes, let people like it or not, and the Kingdom of Allah extends to the Universe as a whole, and the authority to rule His Kingdom on His behalf will always be only with the one whom Allah Himself grants it.

(4)'Wallahu Waseon Aleem' i.e "Verily Allah (alone) is the Ample-giver and the All-Knowing" - These words speak outthe act that bounties to mankind through the government of their state can only come from the All- Bountiful Who alone is the ample-giver, and no amount of human devices of their diplomacies besides Allah's Will, can ever be of any avail to humanity. And what is good and what is bad for people is best known only to Allah, which knowledge can be conveyed to men through His chosen ones to rule over them, and not at all through any other means of the diplomatic election or choice, or by the appointment of a ruler effected by the people themselves.

Basically it all comes down to the KNOWLEDGE, the more learned a person is, the more suitable he will be as a rightful candidate for the seat of Successorship..

To enlighten this further, Allah says in the Holy Quran;



The verse above is an open refutation of the validity of the majority's opinion, for they follow their own conjectures instead of following the MOST LEARNED, ONE!

It also proves, that a less learned person, cannot be a guide OVER the more learned. It's light reveals, that a person who can lead to the TRUTH, without any help from anyone other than Allah, deserves to be the guide only.

It also argues, that a person who depends on others for guidance, is unworthy of being a guide.

The verse also indicates that, those who follow a less learned one, while there exists among them, a more learned one than the one present as a guide, then they are following nothing but conjecture!

If one studies this one particular verse very intelligently, and act FAITHFULLY upon the guidance it gives to every sincere seeker after the TRUTH, it would lead him/her to the correct path of ISLAM.

Its a SHAME really to think, that Muslims in majority have been doing just that, accepting to follow the LESS learned ones, while there existed more learned ones, as better and pious guides.

No sane person can accept that Allah prefers a ignorant person over the learned, it is totally against Allah laws and LOGIC.

Then why have the Majority of Muslims, accepted those men, as best and pious guides, who were ignorant of many facts and Islamic teachings, especially in the matters of rulings, when existed amongst them a person, who would say openly:

"Ask me before you lose me. By Allah, if you ask me about anything that could happen up to the Day of Judgement, I will tell you about it. Ask me, for, by Allah, you will not be able to ask me a question about anything without my informing you. Ask me about the Book of Allah, for by Allah, there is no verse about which I do not know whether it was sent down at night or during the day, or whether it was revealed on a plain or in a mountain."

Sunni References:
al-Isabah, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v4, p568
Tahdhib al-Tahdhib, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v7, pp 337-338 Fat'hul Bari, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v8, p485
Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by al-Suyuti, p124 al-Itqan, by al-Suyuti, v2, p319 al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v2, p198 at-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, Part 2, p101 al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p1107

No wonder! the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF) informed his followers of the very existence of a man who was the treasurer of Knowledge of the Holy Prophet (PBUH&HF), and he had declared to them that if they want to reach the Knowledge of the Holy Prophet, they should take that Knowledge from the treasurer:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said:

"I am the City of Knowledge, and Ali is its Gate. So whoever intends to enter the City, he should enter from its Gate."

Sunni references:
1.Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 201,637, by al-Hakim, v3, pp 126-127,226, Chapter of the Virtues of Ali, narrated on the authority of two reliable reporters: one, Ibn Abbas, whose report has been transmitted through two different but chain of authorities, and the other, Jabir Ibn Abdullah al-Ansari. He said this tradition is Authentic (Sahih).
3.Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p635, Tradition #1081

If IMAM ALI IBN ABI TALIB, was the most knowledgeable amongst the companions, why did those who elected Abu bakr as a Caliph at Saqifa Bani, prefer Abu Bakr over Ali, especially when it is known and agreed by all , that manytimes Hasrat Abu bakr and Hasrat Omar, used to seek for a solution, from Imam Ali, when they could'nt solve a problem themselves?

Abu Bakr said: "May Allah never put me in a situation where I can not have access to Abul Hasan (i.e., Ali) to solve a problem." Similarly, Sa'id al-Musayyib said:

"Umar Ibn al-Khattab used to beg God to preserve him from a perplexing case which the father of al-Hasan was not present to decide." Furthermore Umar said: "If there was not Ali, Umar would have perished."

Sunni references:
Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p647, Tradition #1100 al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p39
Manaqib, by al-Khawarizmi, p48 al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, p338 al-Riyadh al-Nadhirah, by Muhibbuddin al-Tabari, v2, p194 Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171

Hasrat Omar himself admitted, that if it were,nt for Imam Ali, he would have perished!

There are many cases recorded, where Hasrat Ali saved Hasart Omar from making grave mistakes!

Many traditionists have recorded, quoting from Ibn 'Abbas, that he said:

"A mad woman who had committed adultery was brought to 'Umar. He sought counsel from the people regarding her, and then ordered that she be stoned. 'Ali b. Abu Talib passed by her and asked: 'What is the matter with her?'

The people said: 'She is a mad woman of such and such a tribe and has committed adultery, and 'Umar has ordered that she be stoned'. He said: 'Take her back'; then he went to him and said: 'Do you not know that the pen has been lifted from the mad person until he is sane, from the one asleep until he awakes, and from the child until he attains puberty?'

'Umar freed her and said: 'Had it not been for 'Ali, Umar would have perished'". (Ibn al-Jawzi in his al-Tadhkira, p.75).

Ibn Maja, in his Sunan, volume 2, p. 227,
Al-Hakim in volume 2, p. 59 of his Mustadrak,
Abu Dawud in volume 2, p. 402 of his Sunan,
Al-Bayhaqi in volume 6, p. 64 of his Sunan,
Ibn Hajar in Fath al-Bari, and other reporters relate from Ibn 'Abbas.

Surprisingly, AL BUKHARI has recorded that: "'Ali said to 'Umar: 'Do you not know that the pen is raised from the mad person until he attains sanity, from the child until he attains maturity, and from the one sleeping until he wakes up?'"

But al-Bukhari was confused by this narration. How could he inform the people of 'Umar's ignorance regarding the penalties legislated in Allah's book, and which the Prophet of Allah (S.A.W.) had explained? How could one assume the position of the head of the Caliphate if his condition was such?

Furthermore, how could al-Bukhari narrate this narration, when it contains the merits of 'Ali b. Abu Talib who had resorted to teaching them what they did not know? Moreover, 'Umar's admission "Had it not been for 'Ali, 'Umar would perished".


By comparing the verse (10:35) with the incident mentioned above, one has to give up the weird belief they are following or be amongst the "BLIND FOLLOWING THE BLIND!"


Truly, Allah has stated that THE MAJORITY are following falsehood...We can see the same results in Non-Shiaism, they have accepted Hasrat Abu Bakr, Hasrat Omar and Hasrat Usmaan, OVER Imam ALI, the most learned out of the three and the rest of Companions.

There was no argument used by any companion at Saqifa Bani, to show that Abu Bakr was chosen because of his KNOWLEDGE, AND PIETY, the two main factors which exalt the position of a person towards superiority.


The authority to rule over mankind is vested in the person who can guide the people to the truth and not in the person or person's who not the right from wrong unless guided by somebody else, and to this effect the Sixth Holy Imam, Jaffar ibne Muhammad as- Sadiq (A.S) in refuting the theory (Khilafat should be decided by the people)narrated from his father the Fifth Holy Imam Muhammad ibne Ali al-Baqir(A.S)…from the Holy Prophet, that he said:

"Whoever drew the sword and called people to himself to obey him while among the Muslims there is a person more learned than him, then he is a straying imposter"

Prophet Ibraheem (A.S) advances the same argument, informing his father to follow him because of the knowledge granted to him.

"O' my father! Indeed has come unto me, of the knowledge which has not come unto thee, so follow me: I will guide thee on the path straight" -19:43

If Imam Ali was more knowledgeable than Hasrat Abu Bakr, Hasrat Omar, Hasrat Usmaan, and according to the Holy Quran it's the most learned one that deserves to be followed, then why was Imam Ali deprived of his right?

Imam Ali many times expressed:

"By Allah, I am the Brother of the Messenger of Allah and his friend and his cousin and the inheritor of his knowledge. Who has a better title for succeeding him than me?

Sunni references:
al-Khasa'is al-Alawiyyah, al-Nisa'i
al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim v3, p112
al-Dhahabi in his Talkhis of al-Mustadrak has admitted the above words to be genuine.

Secondly to be a good judge, is another quality of the Amir al Mu'mineen.

"O David! Verily We have made you a vicegerent in the earth, so judge thou between the people with justice and follow not vain desires…" -38:26

It is an admitted fact that there was no other Companion of the Holy Prophet who was as good as Ali (A.S) in judging matters related to the Sharia of Islam.

Ibn Mas'ud said: "We were talking that the most trustful referee/Judge in Medina to solve the problems was Ali."

Sunni References:

Tarikh al-Kabir, by al-Bukhari (the author of Sahih), v1, part 2, p6 Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p646, Tradition #1097 al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v2, p352 Tarikh al-Khulafaa, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, p171
al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, section of word "Ain", v2, p462; v3, p39 al-Tabaqat, by Ibn Sa'd, v2, p338, He also reported that Umar said: "Ali was our Judge"

There are many other qualities that a person needs to have, to be the Amir al Mu'meen like braveness,
truthfulness, piety, etc. And it is well known that Imam Ali (A.S) excelled all others in virtues and merits.

Hence Imam Ali (A.S) deserved to be the natural Successor to the Holy Prophet, and his deserving position lead the Holy Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) to declare: "Of whomsoever I am the Moula Ali is his Moula, O Allah love him who loves Ali, forsake him who forsakes Ali…"

YOU SAID:"..To believe otherwise is tantamount to thinking that Allah has taken His Hand away from Khilafat and left it to the disposal of humans, and abandoned the faithful..."

Now please dont go against your very own words: "TO BELIEVE OTHERWISE THAT ALLAH HAS TAKEN HIS HAND AWAY FROM THE KHILAFAT.."

Its the sunnis who believe that the Holy Prophet did NOT choose his successor and left to the human beings!!!! BUT THE SHIA'S BELIEVE that by the will of Allah, the Holy Prophet on the revelation of the Following ayah chose Imam Ali for the leadership: "O Apostle! Deliver what has been sent down to you from your Lord; and if you don't do it, you have not delivered His message (at all); and Allah will protect you from the people ..." (Quran 5:67).

According to the verse above, it is indicated that the Holy Prophet (S.A.W) is being asked to convey such a special message, that if he does not do so, the Deen will not be completed. So what is this special Message?

I wait for thy reply.



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 RE: 'Waqar under the microscope'?, Waqar, 02-Jan-01, (1)


Messages in this topic



02-Jan-01, 10:53 PM (GMT)

1. "RE: 'Waqar under the microscope'?"

Assalamu Alaikum WRWB

Brother Shaan, I must primarily thank you for drawing attention to all those many references upon which you have based and relied your arguments.

I am sure you will accept that debates such as these, particularly on a topic as important as Khilafat, should not be rushed, merely to prove the superiority of one's knowledge as well as the swiftness with which one can react. You have raised many interesting points in your mails, and it will indeed take time to respond to each of them.

I request your patience.







وَنَجَّيْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَكَانُوا يَتَّقُونَ {41:18}

But We delivered those who believed and practised righteousness


Election of Khalifa
 Who is the successor of Prophet
 Thursday to be remembered
 Original Islam Vs Caliphate
 Who is the successor of the Prophet (s.a.w)?
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