Date: Sun, 03 Oct 99 13:33PM MDT

From: "Mohammed Y.Jaffer"     

To:  zanzinet

Subject: [zanzinet] Re: [Re: The Glory of the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)]






Words of Mohammed Faraj :

Attributes of Ali bin Abi Talib (RA) about your reputation you gave to Sayiduna Ali Bin Abi Talib (RA) which cannot be accepted by any sane, it is your decision. With this, you have not started this one, but because before you there was a Jew named as Abdillahi bin Saba-a who entered into this religion with the intention of wanting to corrupt it. He was among the first Shia of Ali (RA), and this person exceeded the limit in praising Ali (RA) until he reached to call Ali that he is Allah, and Ali (RA) judged him to be killed by burning him for his unbelieving belief. Read the book of AL Hilmy page 164 chapter 2 (this is also a book of the Shiites).



My words :

Here brother has brought together two topics, the first reports about the hadith Imam Ali (as) and the second about Abdullah ibn Saba.

Brother still keeps surprising me. When I bring hadith about Imam Ali (as), most of them I extract from your books and on many other traditions are Mutawwatir and accepted by the Sunni Scholars.

The person to bring about the hadith Abdullah bin Saba is Sayf Ibn Umar al-Dhabbi al-Usayyidi al-Tamimi, who died in 170 AH, at the time of Haroon al-Rashid. Sayf, who has written two books were available during the rule of Bani Ummaya. The books themselves are "al-Fotooh wa al-Riddah" describe the history before death of the Prophet (saw) until the time of the third caliph. And the second book is "al-Jamal wa Maseeri Aisha wa Ali" describes the history from murder of Uthman till the battle of Jamal.


This person Sayf is known as LIAR AND CREATING FALSE HADITH, SIMILAR LIKE HADITH OF THE ‘ELFU LAILA WA LAILA’. Prominent Sunni Scholars have confirmed that this Sayf ibn Umar was known in telling LIE, as al-Hakim, al-Nisa'I, Mueen Yahya Ibn Abu Hatam, Ibn Abi Hatam, Abu Dawud, Ibn Habban, Ibn Abd al-Barr, al-Darqutini, Firoozabad, Ibn al-Sakan, Safi al-Din, Ibn UDei, al-Suyuti and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.



Even the Shi'i book is written about this Abdullah bin Saba is not accounted among the four known books. The book al-Kushshi has brought many weak traditions and unacceptable. Suppose that this person actually existed and had been burnt by Imam Ali (as), now what will be? Shi'i Scholars account this Abdullah ibn Saba as hypocrite. If any hypocrite person appear to be a friend of Ali (as) what will make him to be Shia? If the thief had climbed onto Mimbar and has brought a bad effect and destroys the name of Islam, do we take the Scholars and called them as Thieves?
If you read the hadith of 'Thousand of Laila and Laila' of this Sayf will see even older companions, who were known as Shiatu Ali such as Abu Dhar and Ammar Yasir were students of this Abdullah ibn Saba. Is it making any sense for these people to leave Ali (AS) and went to follow this Jew, and while they are the ones who heard the hadith of the Prophet (saw) about Ali (as)?

I see our brother will search anything bad that he can lay on Shia even if it is Lie and leave out the truth. I will like to advise our brothers drop down by bringing these false hadith AND bring THE TRUE hadith, FOR EXAMPLE FOR KAAB AL-AHBAR. I would love if he can explain to us about this Jewish Rabbi who was very near TO THE SECOND AND THIRD Khalifa, AND HOW THEY WOULD TAKE ADVICE FROM HIM. NOT to bring the tradition of 'thousand Laila and Laila' OF AL-Sayf KAZAB !!!!!



Mohammed Yusuf



Date:  Tue, 05 Oct 99 05:31AM MDT

From:  "Muhammad Aly"   

Cc: zanzinet

Subject: Re: The Glory of the Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w)(addition)




Assalam Alaykum


All Netters, ………………


For you to mentioning Abdullah Bin Sabaa is amazing, you are a educated man, other things are not suitable to be told, the story of Abdullah Bin Sabaa Sheikh Mohammed Faraj has been brought and time and again has already been explained herein but to add only, this man did not exist and live on earth, and all his stories are lies of the Saif Bin Omar At-Tamimi, if you want to know more of the truth of these words, many of the Muslim scholars who are deep in knowledge of the history feel that this person did not exist but in fact it was one of the weapon wanting to either save the honor of the companions or arms used against the power of the Shiites which was giving difficulties political and social rulers of Banu Umayyah and others ... So for this reason scholars of Sunni and Shiites have rejected the existence of this man because of the firmly and strong proofs taken from the books which you know and other you do not know of the Islamic history ... see evidence of this:


(i) Book "Abdullah Bin Sabaa, of Allamah Seyyid Mortadha Al-Askari. and  for the Sunni Scholars read :

(ii)Book "Adullah Ibn Sabaa: A Study Of the Historical Resources Concerning His Role in Al-Fitnah" of Sheikh Abdul-Aziiz S. Al-Helaabi,

Dean of Faculty of History at King Saud University -Saud Arabia ..

(iii)Book " Adh'waa ala Sunnati Muhammadiyyah" of the Sheikh of Azhar years of 1950s Mahmoud Abu-Rayyah etc. ..


Note: Proofs contained in these books will be sufficient and you do not need any other proof and after reading these books I request you to bring your comments on this story of Abdullah Bin Sabaa, your claimed and depending on false stories of (Saif Bin Omar tamimi) whom I called "Bunuwasi" of the story just like all scholars of Shi'i and Sunni call him. You have seen the list of the Sunni scholars who rejected Omar Bin Seif tamimi from the article Mr Mohammed Yussuf Jaffer, we pray for the netters that they will consider on the subject of truth and throw away all past events with time.


Thank you,


Sorry if I used bad language, I'm sorry for all the netters ....


Your brother, Muhammad Aly.




وَنَجَّيْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَكَانُوا يَتَّقُونَ {41:18}

But We delivered those who believed and practised righteousness


  Shia in the light of Quran
Term Shia in Quran and Hadith
 The Spiritual Message of Shi'ism
 Sunni Scholars says about Shia
 Divne Copyright Laws


 ASFA Discussion Ibn Saba
 Kaab or Saba 1
 Kaab or Saba 2
 Debate about Ibn Saba

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وَنَجَّيْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَكَانُوا يَتَّقُونَ     اللهم صلى على محد و ال محد.... و عجل فرجهم