Thaqalain - Part 3



From: "Mohammed Yusuf Jaffer"

To: zanzinet

Subject: Hadith ya Thaqalain part 3

Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:50:19 PST



Assalamun Alaikum


People can ask that I have told Salem Salhaf that I would not bring part 3 and that was the end. That message was meant for Salem and we have completed corresponding together between me and him not the netters in this forum. If the intention was for the netters then I would have stopped sending anything in this forum and Salem from his side doing the same.



Today we continue with the tradition (Hadith) of Thaqalain part 3, it is about the discussions of Hisham bin Hakam one of the followers of Imam Jaafar Sadiq (as). Before I begin with these discussions of Hisham first I will bring some verses from the Glorious Quran regarding how to discuss.


Shakir 16:125] Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and have disputations with them in the best manner; surely your Lord best knows those who go astray from His path, and He knows best those who follow the right way.

Shakir 2:111] And they say: None shall enter the garden (or paradise) except he who is a Jew or a Christian. These are their vain desires. Say: Bring your proof if you are truthful.

[Shakir 21:24] Or, have they taken gods besides Him? Say: Bring your proof; this is the reminder of those with me and the reminder of those before me. Nay! most of them do not know the truth, so they turn aside.

After discussing through logic, wisely and lecturing in the best way by bringing EVIDENCES (Burhan) and still the other side do not accept this, here Quran uses the second method.





[Shakir 109:1] Say: O unbelievers!
[Shakir 109:2] I do not serve that which you serve,
[Shakir 109:3] Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
[Shakir 109:4] Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
[Shakir 109:5] Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
[Shakir 109:6] You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion.

[Shakir 36:10] And it is alike to them whether you warn them or warn them not: they do not believe.

Shakir 2:171] And the parable of those who disbelieve is as the parable of one who calls out to that which hears no more than a call and a cry; deaf, dumb (and) blind, so they do not understand.

[Shakir 7:176] And if We had pleased, We would certainly have exalted him thereby; but he clung to the earth and followed his low desire, so his parable is as the parable of the dog; if you attack him he lolls out his tongue; and if you leave him alone he lolls out his tongue; this is the parable of the people who reject Our communications; therefore relate the narrative that they may reflect.

I am trying to my ability to bring EVIDENCES, and no one should later accuse me of not doing so and then using chapter 109 against me.





Amr bin Obaid was renowned scholar of Motazalite beliefs, among the contemporaries of Hisham. One day, Imam Jaafar Sadiq (a.s) said to Hisham, "Would you narrate to me the discussion you had with Amr bin Obaid Basari Motazalee.

Hisham : "I am at your beck and call, but out of modesty, I can not open my lips, in your (august) presence."


The Imam remarked : "But why feel modest, when I am bidding you to narrate it."


Hisham was satisfied with the remark and said : I heard that Amr bin Obaid was one of the topmost scholars, well-versed in scholasticism and a great disputant. In the mosque of Basra he occupied the seat of learning and propagated the doctrine of Imamat (from his point of view) and other problems pertaining to scholasticism and preached Sunni Religion. I was taken aback at this news and left for Basra. It was Friday when I reached there and I went straight to the mosque. I saw quite a number of people there Amr bin Obaid was sitting there surrounded by his admires. He was putting on a black woolen shawl round his waiste and another shawl covering his head. People sitting round him were putting various questions of literary (and religious) nature I seated myself in the last row on my knees. I spoke to Amr bin Obaid in these words : "O Scholar, I have travelled all the way to the place; do you permit me to put questions to you." Amr bin Obaid said, "Yes, you are at liberty to ask whatever you like."


Hisham : "Please answer my question, Have you got eyes."

Amr bin Obaid : "What a question you are asking young man?"

Hisham : "Well, I only want a reply to my question."

Amr bin Obaid : "Any how you are at liberty to ask me any question however odd it may sound."

Hisham : "I have already put a question to you, Have you got eyes."

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, I have (eyes).

Hisham : "What purpose do they serve?"

Amr bin Obaid : "I see the faces of people and colours of various things."

Hisham : "Have you nose also?"

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, I have nose, also."

Hisham : "What do you do with it?"

Amr bin Obaid : "I smell the fragrance and also the offensive odour."

Hisham : "Have you got tongue also?"

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, I have."

Hisham : "What do you do with it."

Amr bin Obaid : "I speak with it and taste (various) dishes."

Hisham : "Have you got ears also?"

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, I have."

Hisham : "What is their purpose?"

Amr bin Obaid : "I hear with my ears."

Hisham : "Have you got a heart also?"

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, Allah has given me heart also."

Hisham : "What is the function of the heart?"

Amr bin Obaid : "The chief function of the heart is co-ordination amongst the above-mentioned organs (of the body) i.e, eyes, nose, ears, tongue, hands and feet to remove if there are any doubts and restore confidence amongst them."

Hisham : "As you say all the parts of the body, although in tact, have to rely on the heart, can not function without its help and cannot remove the difference on their own. Is it not?"

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, no organ of the body is independent, and can not do without heart."

Hisham : "Why is it so when every organ of the body is in tact, it has the power of discrimination and with understanding?"

Amr bin Obaid : "Oh! Young Chap. When I see a thing with my eyes, or taste it with the tongue or smell with nose or hear with my ears and if I am in doubt whether I saw this thing or that  or heard this or that them I refer it to my heart. The decision given by the heart dispels all doubts and I am convinced (about the truth)."

Hisham : "Now, it becomes quite clear form you utterances that Allah created heart (in the body) so that if any suspicion arises amongst the organs (of the body) the heart should remove it and also do away with their differences."

Amr bin Obaid : "Yes, it is quite so."

Hisham : "Abu Marwan (Surname of Amr bin Obaid), now tell us frankly, Allah does not want the organs of the body remain independent and free; thereby Allah has created and appointed a leader and chief (i.e., heart) which banishes difference and advocates peace. The leader confirms what the organs of the body think right and if there is any doubt the leader dispels it. How is it possible that Allah being aware of the innumerable difference amongst the creation and the existence of chaos, did not appoint any Imam, for the people of this Universe, so that, in case of divergence of views they could refer to the Imam for removal of their doubts and misgivings. The Imam should look after the welfare of the people and be interested in their betterment. Does this appeal to you?" Amr bin Obaid was lost for a while and could not utter a word. After sometime he raised his head, looked at Hisham and remarked, with astonishment : "Are you Hisham bin Hakam?"

Hisham : "I am no match for him."

Amr bin Obaid : "Then you be his pupil of his companion?"

Hisham : "This is not correct."

Amr bin Obaid : "Then who are you? Which place do you come from?"

Hisham : " I have come all the way from Kufa and belong to it."

Amr bin Obaid : "Oh! You must be Hisham. Why do you hide facts."


Amr bin Obaid got up, embraced me and seated me beside him. He did not talk to any one, as long as I was there. After sometime I left the place.


On listening to this whole episode Imam Jaafar Sadiq (a.s) laughed  heartily over it and said, "Tell me, O Hisham! Who taught you this wisdom?"

"My life be sacrificed for you," I submitted, "It is only from you that I picked this wisdom and employed it, in my own way."





Yunus bin Yaqub relates : Once when I was with Imam Jaafar Said (a.s), a Syrian came there, and addressing the Imam said, "I am an eminent scholar well-versed in rhetoric, religious jurisprudence and interpretations of Divine precepts. I have come here to challenge your close disciple in a public debate."


"O Syrian," the Imam replied, "Are your arguments founded on the authority of the Traditions of the Prophet, or are they your own original material?"

"I will have recourse to both," said the Syrian, "I will quote the Prophet as well as expound my own arguments."

"Are you on the same level as the Prophet?" asked the Imam. "No", confirmed the Syrian. "Like the Prophet, is obedience to you also obligatory?" Posed the Imam. "No", came the Syrian's reply. …….

Then addressing Hisham, the Syrian said, "Young man! Ask me about the Imamate of this person Imam Jaafar Sadiq (a.s)." Hearing this, and understanding the implications of the words, Hisham was so infuriated that he started trembling with rage. "O Syrian!" Uttered Hisham, controlling his temper, "Tell me one thing. Is God more merciful to His creatures, or are the creatures more kind to themselves?"

"In fact," replied the Syrian, "God is definitely much more compassionate to His creatures."

"All right," said Hisham, "what is that particularly important act of favour that God has done for His creatures?"

"That most benevolent act," replied the Syrian, confidently, "is that God by His Divine mercy has established an authority over us – His vicegerent in a convincing manner for His creations so that this vicegerent mediates in mutual disputes and animosities, transforming mutual hatred into love and regard for each other; apprising them of the Divine commandments and prohibitions and extolling them the necessity of discharging their ordained obligations."

"And who is that vicegerent and true representative of God?" Inquired Hisham. "That convincing personage," replied the Syrian, is none other than the Prophet of God (Muhammad -s.a.w). "And after the Prophet?" asked Hisham. "The Quran and the Prophet's traditions," answered the Syrian. "If that is so," shouted out Hisham, "Have the Quran and Traditions benefited us by way of removing our differences of opinion?" "Why not?" replied the Syrian. "Granting that it is so," argued Hisham, "How do you account for the differences that lie between us? Where is the point in debating the issue with us? What was it then that brought you all the way from the Syria to discuss?"


At this battery of weighty questions, the Syrian was aghast and kept silent. He had nothing to say by way of a reply. Noticing this, the Imam (a.s) spurred him saying: "Why are silent? Why do not you speak?"

"I am silent," acquiesced the Syrian, "because if I say that there are no difference between us, it would be a blunt lie. It would also be wrong if I mental in ironing out our differences, for, such a statement would controversial. And if I maintain that though we definitely differ with each other, yet, each of us is right in our own way, it would only prove that the Quran and Traditions have failed to benefit us by way of removing our differences. Therefore, there is no alternative for me except employing the same technique of advocacy as recourse to by Hisham."

"Of course!" consented the Imam (a.s). "You can do so by all means. I am sure you will find him (Hisham) a store-house of the art of rhetoric."


"O Hisham," the Syrian started, "Is God more kind to His creatures, or are the creatures more compassionate than God to themselves?"

"God," replied Hisham, "is more compassionate to His Creatures that they can even be amongst themselves to each other."

"Has this compassionate God provided for some such factor as can unite His creatures into one unit with love and affections for each other and capable of differentiating between what is right and what is wrong?" The Syrian was literal in copying Hisham's technique of questioning.. Hisham, sensing the catch in the question, asked : "Are you asking this with reference to the time of the Prophet (s.a.w) or in the context of our present age?"

"I am asking in the context of both Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) and our present age." Clarified the Syrian.

"There is no doubt," explained Hisham, "That Prophet (s.a.w) was a Vicegerent of God in his own time. As for the present times," Hisham turned pointingly to Imam Jaafar Sadiq (a.s) and said, "This person who is gracing this assembly with his presence is in the vicegerent of God. It is around him that people muster and benefit themselves. It is he who acquaints us with Divine directives and enriches us with the knowledge that he has inherited from his revered ancestors and his exalted forefather, the Prophet (s.a.w).

"How can I believe that to be true?" asked the Syrian.

"Ask him anything you like", challenged Hisham. "And you will be convinced of the veracity of my statement."

"Hisham!" Expostulated the Syrian, you have cut short my line of argument and made me speechless. You have thrown back the ball in my court!"


Seeing the Syrian in a quandary, Imam Jaafar Sadiq (a.s) addressed the Syrian, saying, "May I tell you about your journey to this place and the incidents that occurred enroute?"

Having said this, the Imam (a.s) related all the details of the Syrian's journey with miraculous accuracy. The Syrian was so stupefied with divinity of the Imam's (a.s) knowledge that he exclaimed, "Sir, you have divined the truth," he almost shouted acquiescently, adding, "I now declare my Faith in God."


"No!" interjected the Imam (a.s). "Do not say 'I now declare my Faith in God', Belief in Islam is a pre-requisite to a declaration of Faith, for it is the acquiescent conformity to Islam that sanctifies inheritances and regularises matrimonial and other human relationships. As distinct from this, Faith is that element on which the human reformation and salvation subsequently depend."


"I declare," said Syrian with all the sincerity of conviction, "That there is none save Allah to be worshipped; that Muhammad (s.a.w) is the Prophet of God; and that you are one of the successors to the Prophet!"


So for today, until the other day I said this:


Wal Hamdulilalih Rabil Alamin




Mohammed Yusuf




Narrated Aisha:
 One day the Prophet (PBUH&HF) came out afternoon wearing a black cloak (upper garment or gown; long coat), then al-Hasan Ibn Ali came and the Prophet accommodated him under the cloak, then al-Husain came and entered the cloak, then Fatimah came and the Prophet entered her under the cloak, then Ali came and the Prophet entered him to the cloak as well. Then the Prophet recited: "Verily Allah intends to keep off from you every kind of uncleanness O' People of the House (Ahlul-Bayt), and purify you a perfect purification (the last sentence of Verse 33:33)."



In addition to what the Prophet (saw) said who are the real “Ahlul Bait”, he made the habit for six or nine months, every day after morning prayer he would passed by by the door of Fatima's house and address them with greeting as these are "MY AHLEL BAIT" and recite this verse of tat-hir 33.




وَنَجَّيْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَكَانُوا يَتَّقُونَ {41:18}

But We delivered those who believed and practised righteousness


   Thaqalain series 5
   Thaqalain series 6
   Thaqalain series 7
   Thaqalain series 8
   Thaqalain series 9
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   Thaqalain series 13
   Thaqalain series 14
   Thaqalain series 15
  Thaqalain series 17
   Thaqalain series 18
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   Thaqalain series 21

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وَنَجَّيْنَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَكَانُوا يَتَّقُونَ     اللهم صلى على محد و ال محد.... و عجل فرجهم